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Wednesday
Mar062013

3/6/2013

03-06-2013 10:28:40
DoorBoy
are you getting TO Signals today?
03-06-2013 10:29:59
BruceB_RR
Hmmm, No I have not gotten any this morning.
03-06-2013 10:31:18
DoorBoy
okay thanks bruce.. i havent either on a dozen or so studies
03-06-2013 10:35:32
BruceB_RR
I just sent in a email to see if there was something up.....(down)
03-06-2013 10:44:20
DoorBoy
TY.. keep me posted please.
03-06-2013 10:44:59
BruceB_RR
Sure :)
03-06-2013 11:03:02
cosmo
Nothing here and charts load slowly
03-06-2013 11:55:28
BruceB_RR
I haven't heard anything back yet but I am now getting TO hits again.
Also I have gotten some hits in RTS too.
03-06-2013 12:04:48
DoorBoy
did you reopen prodigio? Im still not seeing hits
03-06-2013 12:04:49
BruceB_RR
Both starting +/- 11:40
03-06-2013 12:05:17
cosmo
TO hits now but no fills on same
03-06-2013 12:05:21
DoorBoy
hmm now its working
03-06-2013 12:05:21
BruceB_RR
No, I just let it be. It just started.
03-06-2013 12:05:33
DoorBoy
thanks.. mine is working now
03-06-2013 12:05:34
cosmo
11:38 here
03-06-2013 12:07:31
DoorBoy
1205 for me.
03-06-2013 12:08:43
BruceB_RR
I'm not running the same strats in both TO and RTS so I can't comment on if I am getting TO hits that don't also get RTS fills.
03-06-2013 12:09:09
cosmo
Mine are all the same
03-06-2013 12:09:46
DoorBoy
mine only filled on 2 of the 7 hits ive received so far
and cosmo my RTS and TO are the same
Another just filled, so i guess its just taking a few TO hits to recognize.
03-06-2013 12:22:46
timtom
can anyone explain to me what exactly the 4 red boxes are doing when you add a rule to your quote columns?
what does it mean when one box turns green, all boxes yellow, etc
03-06-2013 12:25:11
BruceB_RR
They represent TRUE/False for your rule during the last four bars. All yellow means it is still calculating.
03-06-2013 12:28:33
timtom
ah OK. i was thrown off by the 4 boxes, but I see you can change to 1 if you choose
so for one of my rules, which is actually made of 5 sub rules, I can visually see them each become true until they all are. nifty.
it would be great to be able to put in values for the different indicators on which each sub rule is based though
03-06-2013 12:29:54
BruceB_RR
Yep, It is a good tool for testing your rules in realtime.
That would mean we would have to be able to output values. Please request!!! :)
03-06-2013 12:32:00
timtom
haha done. maybe the 156th time is the charm?
03-06-2013 12:33:58
BruceB_RR
It would be cool if we could output values from a subrule but I could also see being able to have plot nodes in our rules and be able to pick the Plot node output to show in the column. 
Either or both would work well.
03-06-2013 12:42:08
timtom
true
my excitement is a little short lived - my boxes aren't showing True when they should, sometimes.
half tempted to just start building from scratch again, maybe something is lingering from a pre-update rule or something
03-06-2013 12:44:27
DoorBoy
where are these boxes that flash for true/false?
03-06-2013 12:45:37
timtom
you need to go to your quotes tab, right click on the header row, then hit Customize Quotes, and you can add a column for any of your rules
it will be red when false, and turn green when it's true
maybe. I'm getting a lot of "green" when the indicator is no where close, and red when it's actually true
03-06-2013 12:47:39
DoorBoy
awesome that is a good idea
03-06-2013 12:49:49
BruceB_RR
Here is a video on how to do it. http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/video-links/how-to-add-a-technical-study-to-a-quotes-list-2272013.html
03-06-2013 12:53:09
timtom
this is helping me see that my rules for a couple of indicators definitely are not being calculated correctly
I have it set for MFI > 70, it's green at 46
ah, I think the quotes portion is updating every 1 minute, when I'm working with 2-min bars in my rules. wonder how to change that?
03-06-2013 12:55:04
BruceB_RR
Make sure your chart matches your rule......
I think it is using the smallest bar in your rule.
03-06-2013 12:55:55
timtom
it does. actually what's happening, is both are updating every 2 minutes, but the chart is doing it on even minutes, the quotes tab on odds?
no, sorry, I need to watch for longer. it just updated on evens. but it still doesn't match my charts which are on the same parameters
what I don't get, it sometimes it's right, and sometimes it's way off. being inflexible computer code, how can it do both? You would think itd either always be right, or always wrong
03-06-2013 01:00:04
DoorBoy
how do you change it to a single box timtom?
03-06-2013 01:00:23
BruceB_RR
Hmmm, not sure. I guess you should report what you are seeing to support. You are looking at the previously closed bar on the chart right?
03-06-2013 01:00:48
timtom
right
03-06-2013 01:01:14
DoorBoy
nvm i figured it out
03-06-2013 01:02:11
timtom
one thing I've noticed is how the charting tab works with 2-minute charts. It seems like it has a hard time with it. It will update the same bar for a while, then it will spit out a fully formed bar and skip ahead to another, like it got bogged down or something
sorry, didn't see the msg earlier.
03-06-2013 01:02:56
BruceB_RR
http://i.imgur.com/Q0Dq6cq.png better late then never.
I did get a reply from Dan earlier. I need to check email more often I guess. :)
Hello Bruce, Thank you for your email and I apologize for the inconvenience. Some users experienced a temporary interruption this morning while using TradeOptics due to maintenance. TradeOptics is now working properly.
03-06-2013 01:22:11
timtom
so I just stumbled across something that might make some sense of my bad signals. Bollinger Bands is one of my studies, and in my charts, I use a simple average, but I think in WizLab, it defaults to Exponential, but ther'es no option to change which type of average you use in WL
not sure how to fix that one..
03-06-2013 01:24:32
BruceB_RR
Try this one :)
http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/prodigio-manual/2012/3/13/bol-band-ema.html
03-06-2013 01:26:16
timtom
is there a BolBand SMA option?
I think the regular BB is using EMA instead of the simple MA that I want
03-06-2013 01:28:26
BruceB_RR
Yeah, that is just Bollinger Bands, That is smoothed by a SMA
On the Chart you can choose which you want in the study.
03-06-2013 01:31:15
timtom
right. the issue I'm seeing is that I looked at the chart and I should have gotten a signal based on the SMA, but I didn't. I changed the chart to EMA, and I would not have gotten a signal. That's what's making me thing the regular BB node is using EMA, becuase it didn't give me a true signal when the chart said it should have when set to SMA, and it would have been false if using a EMA
03-06-2013 01:31:15
BruceB_RR
http://i.imgur.com/l4ntWLI.png
03-06-2013 01:31:20
timtom
that kinda didn't make sense
let me try to clarify that... I'm using the regular BB node so show a signal when price closes below the lower band. On the chart, set to SMA, it was clearly below the lower band, but I got no signal. To check it, I then set it to EMA, and it did not cross the lower band with EMA. So, I thought that might be a sign that the regular BB node is also using EMA
03-06-2013 01:35:43
BruceB_RR
Make a rule that compares the BB to a SMA, Probably should be rounded to two decimals and put it into a column. It should show green all of the time. If not there is a problem. 
03-06-2013 01:36:48
timtom
ok, not following how to set that up I don't think...
the rule
03-06-2013 01:37:18
BruceB_RR
Ok, give me a bit.
03-06-2013 01:37:31
timtom
sorry...
you are correct that the regular BB is supposed to use SMA, it says that in the comment box. but, I'm just not totally convinced that's what it's actually doing :)
03-06-2013 01:43:14
BruceB_RR
Here is what I was thinking about.
http://i.imgur.com/UECxTgJ.png
You could also set it up with a "Not Equal" and run it in Back Test. I should not get any hits if it is good.
Here is what I get in the columns (10 of them)
http://i.imgur.com/FWcrSaI.png
That tests the middle line, You would have to do some math to test the other lines.
03-06-2013 01:51:59
timtom
hmmm, Ok, I'm following you now. I may have to think a little harder to test the std deviation sides, but I think I can manage
03-06-2013 01:56:31
BruceB_RR
Take a look at the "BB Long" template rule. They did the math there.
http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/rule-templates-basic/2013/1/24/bolling-bands-longs.html
So you would be comparing the blue highlighted part of that rule to what I did in the second example on that page.
03-06-2013 02:06:25
timtom
I didn't even know some of those nodes were options. I really should go and look thru all the folders again and see if there's better ways to do what Im trying to do!
awesome, thanks
03-06-2013 02:10:09
BruceB_RR
Yeah, I've been trying to get them all up into the manual and they don't all have comments but I thought that one need to be further explained. ;)
needed
They added a lot of nodes, templates and patterns to the platform in the 5.0 update.
03-06-2013 02:18:38
timtom
it says it's equal...still doesn't reconcile with my charts though!
sometimes I wonder if I'm better off breaking things down where I can. Like, instead of using the BolBand node, using the long version...OHLC --> StdDev --> Scale, etc
but if they say they're equal, then the system must be reading them as having the same output, so that wouldn't help...
03-06-2013 02:20:27
BruceB_RR
I used to do that for a MACD. But like you said they are testing equal.
Check the chart values to another chart.
03-06-2013 02:25:17
timtom
Iwas doing that a little earlier, comparing to optionxpress chart, but fo 
i was trying for other indicators, I'll try for BB later
even when comparing for other indicators, the two matched most of the time, but sometimes it was way different. there must be some differnet logic going into calculations somewhere for each
03-06-2013 02:28:29
BruceB_RR
More likely they have different data sources with slight differences in the data.
03-06-2013 02:32:57
timtom
right. makes it tough to know who's "right", for testing purposes
03-06-2013 02:34:33
BruceB_RR
It really isn't a matter of who's right but what is an exceptable margin of error.
That is part of the problem with math, it can be perfect ;) But our data sources can't be because there are way to many inputs into the data stream. 
Think of all of the brokers and there clearing houses and also the latencies that must be present.
Combining that all into one data stream.
It is really a marvel that we have anything like real-time data.
03-06-2013 02:54:11
timtom
that is very true
now riddle me this - I effectively have 6 columns in my quotes screen, the first of which is a 'meta' rule made up of 5 sub rules (using 'and' to connect them into one big rule), and then I have those 5 individual sub rules that make up that one main rule. the weird part is, I'm sometimes getting a green box for my main rule while not having all green boxes for my sub rules
I'm also getting all 5 subs true, but not the main rule, sometimes. obv, the main rule can only be true of all of the sub rules are also true.
03-06-2013 02:57:32
BruceB_RR
Interesting. Are all of the OHLC's the same in the rules?
03-06-2013 02:57:49
timtom
yup. all 2 minute.
03-06-2013 02:58:56
BruceB_RR
Could the Main rule be off by one bar?
03-06-2013 02:59:59
timtom
hmm, i'm not sure. I'll have to keep an eye to see
03-06-2013 03:00:57
BruceB_RR
I could see that maybe the main would fire on the next bar after all the subrules are true.
03-06-2013 03:01:08
timtom
ahhh, that's possible
but wouldn't the main rule also be true when all it's sub rules are true?
03-06-2013 03:02:03
BruceB_RR
That is what I am trying to decide.....
03-06-2013 03:02:14
timtom
but maybe it's thinking those sub rules aren't true until the bar closes, and then it scans to see if it remains true for the next bar?
you know, that would explain a lot of things I was seeing in TO lately. The main rule was true at the close of the 12:00 bar (so at 12:02 on a 2-minute bar), but I'd get a pop up in TO at 12:04 listing 12:02 as the time for the signal
I emailed that issue in, and Dan never officaly got back to me, but it looked like, as of yesterday, that issue was fixed and it was firing signals at the right time. but that's not exhaustive testing to verify for sure
03-06-2013 03:05:45
BruceB_RR
Since I don't do a lot of Intra-day rules I don't contemplate that all that much. Most of the Intra-day rules I use are for triggers on daily strats.
03-06-2013 03:13:00
timtom
gotcha. it doesn't seem like much, but for me, it makes a difference :)
03-06-2013 03:15:38
BruceB_RR
I don't think it would matter even if the rules were all placed together into one rule. It is still the terms them selves that have to become True.
Do you have a ultimate trigger?
once everything else is true?
03-06-2013 03:43:13
timtom
an ultimate trigger? I just have each of the 5 sub rules strung together with 'and' nodes that leads to a "signal" node
03-06-2013 03:47:00
BruceB_RR
What I was thinking was you might try making one or more of the subrules faster by using a multiple of the rule with a 1min OHLC.
Like I do here in this article with Daily rules.
http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/rr-blog/2012/1/8/getting-control-of-intra-day-signals-in-daily-timeframe-rule.html
03-06-2013 03:54:13
timtom
ok, so, for instance, instead of using 10 periods for 2min bars, change to 20 periods for 1 minute bars?
03-06-2013 03:56:31
BruceB_RR
Right! You would have to see if the things like the Bol Bands work with that idea. But most rules can be made to work.
03-06-2013 03:57:24
timtom
ok I see now. I might toy with that some
03-06-2013 03:57:34
BruceB_RR
You do get more noise so you might get more whiplash effect but.......
03-06-2013 03:57:54
timtom
right, that's why I ended up with 2min vs 1 min to begin with, noise
not that I don't still get plenty...
03-06-2013 03:58:11
BruceB_RR
:)
But in theory anyway you would be calcing the same line as you do with the two minute OHLC 
You are just sampling it more often.
03-06-2013 04:00:28
timtom
I like it. a new toy to play with! kind
a
so, if Im doing this right, sholdn't I be getting the same values for each indicator at the same time? i.e., the 2-min chart, the 12:00 bar ends at 12:02, and on the 1min chart, the 12:01 bar ends at 12:02, so should those two bars show the same thing if I doubled the lookback period on the 1-min?
03-06-2013 04:12:10
BruceB_RR
That would depend on your test. If you are using Cross then probably not.
03-06-2013 04:12:28
timtom
I'm just putting two charts side by side and looking at the studies
so on the 2min chart, RSI(10) vs 1min chart RSI (20)
03-06-2013 04:13:34
BruceB_RR
Ah, that is another one I would have to test if this would work with.
03-06-2013 04:14:18
timtom
seems like it should, intuitively, but, it doesn't look like it does. for any of my studies
03-06-2013 04:14:20
BruceB_RR
But then again if you are using a GT or LT test you could probably stay with the 2 min there.
03-06-2013 04:14:40
timtom
and by intuitively, I mean my dumb brain thinks that makes sense.
03-06-2013 04:15:02
BruceB_RR
It depends on the math behind it.
03-06-2013 04:15:13
timtom
I think SMA's would match, not sure about some studies since it may weight some data more than others
right
03-06-2013 04:15:25
BruceB_RR
Right.
03-06-2013 05:19:26
cosmo
I got a fill on one RTS on a short strat that also fired in TO. The ones earlier that I thought were not firing in RTS were actually the exit side of the strat. So it seems to be ok.
03-06-2013 05:20:23
BruceB_RR
I think it is going to take us awhile to get used to seeing the exit side on TO ;)
03-06-2013 05:22:10
cosmo
The only problem I can see is that the exit strats don't ID which one was hit if you are using multiples.
03-06-2013 05:22:35
BruceB_RR
That be true.
03-06-2013 05:23:07
cosmo
Drat I just missed the bus on the USD/JPY short.
03-06-2013 05:24:08
BruceB_RR
Google has an ap to find buses ;) 
03-06-2013 05:24:11
cosmo
Hope for a pullup to get in at 94.05
Should go back to 93.55
03-06-2013 05:31:10
gordon
Hi Bruce...wondering if you know when options will be available ?
03-06-2013 05:33:14
BruceB_RR
Hi Gordon, All I know is when I have asked the answer I get is fairly soon, sometime after the migration is complete, Options are part of the name now :)
03-06-2013 05:34:11
gordon
lol .....got ya..........i use OH to trade options...........figured you would know better
03-06-2013 05:37:02
BruceB_RR
Sometimes I hear things sooner, Sometimes I know things I can't say, Sometimes I'm a mushroom. LOL
03-06-2013 05:37:07
cosmo
Boy if you could search IV skew and IV v HV that would be COOL
03-06-2013 05:37:55
gordon
lol ........i agree Cosmo.........i know there are so many people that have been waiting for this to do options for yers
yrs'
03-06-2013 05:38:21
BruceB_RR
How do you like OH overall?
03-06-2013 05:38:34
gordon
Bruce .........we can just sai like it very easy to excute
03-06-2013 05:38:56
cosmo
Looks like I won't get filled on USD/JPY...the bus has a turbo
03-06-2013 05:39:09
gordon
sorry was gonna say we can blame Mobius...JK
personally i like OH better than TOS or Schwab for execution of orders and they are very reasonable
03-06-2013 05:41:18
cosmo
How much are they per contract
03-06-2013 05:41:26
gordon
.15
Mpersonally 8.95 per side
03-06-2013 05:41:39
cosmo
15 cents
03-06-2013 05:41:53
gordon
yes per contract
03-06-2013 05:42:11
cosmo
Any other in/out expenses
03-06-2013 05:42:38
gordon
none that i know of........
8.95 per side though
03-06-2013 05:43:16
cosmo
TOS can be $1/contract flat
03-06-2013 05:44:10
gordon
OH has a feature also like that 5 for 5
something like that
03-06-2013 05:44:59
cosmo
Do they have the Analze like TOS
03-06-2013 05:45:06
BruceB_RR
Yeah, that was the price I was seeing the other day.
03-06-2013 05:45:07
gordon
using8.958.95 per side thowhich isnt bad at allOH something like thatTOS
TOS stil is 8.95 to open a position correct Cosmo?
03-06-2013 05:45:38
cosmo
Not in my case
03-06-2013 05:45:53
gordon
lol understood
03-06-2013 05:46:11
cosmo
I got in a number a years ago with a group
03-06-2013 05:46:19
gordon
no nothing like TOS
unless you are using something like Rediplus........i would say for options TOS has been the best so far for me and most i know
03-06-2013 05:48:09
cosmo
Sounds like OH will be good for stocks then
03-06-2013 05:48:23
gordon
charting is no good
i just use it to execute trades
options for me only here
03-06-2013 05:49:20
cosmo
Maybe Prodigio will bring them into the new century when they update their charting
03-06-2013 05:49:29
gordon
i used to use infinity for futures
i use TOS for all my charting
03-06-2013 05:50:08
cosmo
thinkscript is easy to use
03-06-2013 05:50:31
gordon
when i saw OH and Prodigio partnered i said it would be awesome for scanning
i ask Mobius to help with my programming in TOS
lol ...and many others
03-06-2013 05:51:35
BruceB_RR
Everyone needs a Mobius once in awhile :)
03-06-2013 05:51:39
cosmo
TOS let the big fish go as far as I can see letting Prodigio go. Tom would never have done it.
03-06-2013 05:52:11
gordon
yea i think when TD stepped in........
03-06-2013 05:52:27
cosmo
The "suits"
03-06-2013 05:52:34
gordon
TOS data though bothers many
03-06-2013 05:52:55
BruceB_RR
I still think they were seeing the beginning of major competition and talked TD into letting it go. 
03-06-2013 05:53:35
cosmo
I put up with it because of the rest of the good about it. I have a good Ninja feed to compare to.
03-06-2013 05:53:59
gordon
schwab here
NT for my friends also and rediplus
03-06-2013 05:54:38
BruceB_RR
I think that TD was thinking about using Prodigio to replace StrategyDesk, Hence the TradeVision update from nowhere.
03-06-2013 05:54:44
cosmo
Maybe I get filled anyway...stop hunting
FX can be wild
03-06-2013 05:55:58
gordon
i stay away although jpy/usd i used to follow for es
03-06-2013 05:56:26
cosmo
20-30 pips a day is all I want
ATR is usually over 100
03-06-2013 05:56:53
gordon
interesting.......
03-06-2013 05:57:22
cosmo
2 10-15pip moves or one good one
$200/contract
03-06-2013 05:57:51
gordon
nice
03-06-2013 05:57:53
cosmo
cost
03-06-2013 05:58:14
gordon
infinity was 500 
for me......lol
Bruce ......Carol is a friend of mine
03-06-2013 05:59:00
cosmo
You see 500 contract trades go through without moving the market so I would guess one could trade pretty big size if desired
03-06-2013 06:00:01
BruceB_RR
Really, where from?
03-06-2013 06:00:33
gordon
texas
my group
ok our group
03-06-2013 06:01:20
BruceB_RR
Oh, different Carol. My wife is named Carol.
LOL
03-06-2013 06:01:33
gordon
lol ..i am sorry
when she stopped on TOS
she moved to Rediplus for auto trading
anyhow
03-06-2013 06:02:48
BruceB_RR
Ah, Mobius uses that also.
03-06-2013 06:03:06
gordon
lol Mobius' uses everyone
which platform doesnt he use
or know how to script for
03-06-2013 06:04:40
BruceB_RR
He has said that he would prefer Prodigio if they can get it going again. Likes the simplicity of the logic.
03-06-2013 06:04:58
gordon
yes
i am friends with most of the people who posted thinkscript code on the site here
sorry Cosmo if i interrupted you
well Bruce and Cosmo ..nice chatting with you guys.......i will check back later to see when options and custom indicators will show on Prodigio charts
Good Luck in your trading
03-06-2013 06:07:41
BruceB_RR
Ok gordon, have a good one.
Think I am going to take a break and watch a little TV before I have to find something to fix for dinner.
03-06-2013 06:14:57
cosmo
Dinner time here