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Entries in Forming Bar (1)

Wednesday
Jan162013

Chat 1/16/2013

01-16-2013 01:06:40
BenF
Hi guys, any one knows what the end signal bar forming ON/OFF is for?
01-16-2013 01:27:07
BruceB_RR
Hey BenF,
Normally the OHLC data is only given after the close of each bar. With the Forming bar on it is constantly changing the bar with the current price.
If you turn on the forming bar it is on for all structures in a strategy though so I would use it cautiously.
Here is an article I wrote awhile back on not needing the forming bar.
http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/rr-blog/2012/1/8/getting-control-of-intra-day-signals-in-daily-timeframe-rule.html
Anyways I am off to bed. Good night.
Good Morning everyone. :)
01-16-2013 09:18:41
Praying_Mantis
Morning!
Do you have to select your list of stocks to trade everyday in RTS and TO?
The pre-builts, I don't have to, they stay, but mine (those strategies I wrote), are always missing the seleted 'list' the next morning.
01-16-2013 09:21:49
BruceB_RR
That is what I think I was seeing also.
01-16-2013 09:26:37
Praying_Mantis
Okay, then...that will be considered a 'confirmed'
'...out of the fairway' - RR
01-16-2013 09:28:04
BruceB_RR
I will send in a report. :)
01-16-2013 09:28:36
Praying_Mantis
great quote RR! I was thinking about this last night when thinking about Prodigio.
01-16-2013 09:28:50
BruceB_RR
LOL
01-16-2013 09:29:42
Praying_Mantis
you know, they have some pretty cool pre-built strategies, but the rest of the execution is just...What happened? Did a designer leave?
I looked on their website to see who's working there and they're all supposed to be doctorates and whatnot.
01-16-2013 09:32:11
BruceB_RR
Not that I know of, But I know Mike has been looking for new people too.
01-16-2013 09:34:27
Praying_Mantis
I would be too after this roll-out.
01-16-2013 09:35:47
BruceB_RR
lol, He has been looking for awhile, I'm thinking a new team may need to learn to work together better.
01-16-2013 09:37:37
Praying_Mantis
I'm not far away from this group. I don't have a doctorate, but...I might call them.
01-16-2013 09:39:26
BruceB_RR
It would be fun to at least get the tour. :)
01-16-2013 09:41:33
Praying_Mantis
The Key Reverse Long is almost like the Bullish Engulfing pattern strategey...
strategy.
I like it.
01-16-2013 10:44:12
timtom
any one else getting lots of hang ups and clocking while working in Prod today?
01-16-2013 10:45:57
BruceB_RR
Does seem a bit sluggish this morning. Did you restart it this morning or was it running through the night?
01-16-2013 10:46:19
timtom
I restarted this morning. It kept freezing up on my last night, so I just shut it down. Same thing today.
01-16-2013 10:47:06
BruceB_RR
In wizardlab or the whole platform?
01-16-2013 10:47:23
timtom
actually I guess it is just WL
my tree disappears on the left side, it partially changes from tab to tab in WL. seems kind of like a Java issue, maybe.
like the bottom of the screen will change to Strat Builder, but the top will stay in Rule builder
could just be this whack computer I'm using. just the first time I've seen it.
01-16-2013 10:48:46
BruceB_RR
Yes, I have been having a big problem with WL and especially with SB
It has been happening to me since the weekend.
01-16-2013 10:50:50
timtom
interesting. it never actually crashes on me, I just have to force stop it when I get to frustrated with it
01-16-2013 11:27:09
whirlly
Hey guys, is TO working for you Live? I have symbols that it shows that have triggered correctly when the market opened. But all day including now, TO is still showing that it's a candidate, even though the stock has already moved and doesn't qualify.
01-16-2013 11:29:52
BruceB_RR
Hmmm, I've been looking at the symbols TO has been firing on. It looks like even though I changed to a single symbol list it is still getting symbols from some other list.
Whirlly, have you checked the trigger point against your exit strategy?
01-16-2013 11:33:49
whirlly
Hi Bruce. Right now I'm trying to be as basic as possible to try to isolate the problem. I am just using the standard sp100 symbol list. I'm not sure how the exit point relates to it, since it's far away
For example, if i have a basic rule of buy when RSI(2) < 10 (on the daily bar), WMB qualified this morning, but has ran up since then so it's no longer under 10. But TO keeps giving me a signal that it's an entry.
Or I have a rule, that triggers if today's price is lower than yesterday's close. Now it keeps on signaling aapl even though aapl is clearly higher than yesterday's close.
01-16-2013 11:41:28
BruceB_RR
If you are looking at a daily bar then it will continue to signal as long as yesterdays value is good. The value will not change until today's close
01-16-2013 11:42:02
whirlly
even if the forming bar is set to on?
01-16-2013 11:42:20
BruceB_RR
Ah, different story :)
01-16-2013 11:42:48
whirlly
yeah, sorry to mention that
just wondering if anyone else is experiencing incorrect signals firing in TO.
01-16-2013 11:46:36
BruceB_RR
That is one of the reasons I don't use the forming bar On. I think it sometimes makes the rule to complex to completely understand the dynamics going on.
01-16-2013 11:47:03
timtom
I was getting good hits yesterday. No hits yet today on my strategies, so I can't say for sure
01-16-2013 11:47:31
BruceB_RR
I prefer this approach http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/rr-blog/2012/1/8/getting-control-of-intra-day-signals-in-daily-timeframe-rule.html
01-16-2013 11:51:52
cosmo
Fun and games this morning. My old G4 started freezing up with a kernal failure. As I suspected from my tempurature monitor the CPU grease had dried up because the thing is so old. I pulled it apart...cleaned the flacky grease off and fixed it with some Artic Silver. Prodigio did not close trades even though TO showed it should. No entries today but TO shows a lot on the sell side of strats.
01-16-2013 11:54:31
BruceB_RR
I'll be back, I have to run a errand.
01-16-2013 11:55:08
whirlly
thanks for the feedback
01-16-2013 12:05:15
timtom
is anyone else's system staying stuck in "Loading optionshouse Prodigio" up at the top?
01-16-2013 12:20:14
whirlly
mine is fine
01-16-2013 01:29:02
BruceB_RR
Hey, I'm back :)
timtom, did you get back in?
Seems I went down and had to sign back in.
But it did re-connect
01-16-2013 01:38:27
timtom
Im in, and it seems to be working, but it still says "Loading" in the top bar
has for the last hour
01-16-2013 01:43:18
Praying_Mantis
uh...I just logged in again (was out for a bit) and my folders aren't showing up in the 'Strategie Builder' section of Wizard Lab...
01-16-2013 01:44:16
timtom
yeah, mine keeps hanging up, freezing, slowing down, folders disappearing, but reappearing if I scroll over them
01-16-2013 01:45:30
Praying_Mantis
I give up for today. This is a disaster.
01-16-2013 01:47:08
BruceB_RR
Yeah, I'm pretty much not doing anything in WizLab till the next update. I have not been able to even get into SB.
01-16-2013 01:47:22
timtom
this may or may not have anything to do with anything, but I went thru and removed any special characters from my rules, and it seems to be more stable now. namely I had a couple % signs in file names
if you rename something in windows explorer, then it won't update in prodigio unless you open it under rule builder, then save as, and pick the new name you chose
01-16-2013 01:48:49
Praying_Mantis
I'm hanging up the skates on this version Prodigio until a later date. Wasting my time. Sux.
01-16-2013 01:48:56
BruceB_RR
Hmmm, I had considered that at one time. May be worth perusing.
01-16-2013 01:50:05
timtom
I noticed it got angry if I tried to save something new with a % in the name, so I thought I'd better go remove the symbol from existing files. may not do anything, just figured it's worth a try
01-16-2013 01:51:00
BruceB_RR
I am going to send a email to Mike and ask him about it.
01-16-2013 01:51:19
Steve
See you guys love the new version :)
Anyone follow shadowtrader?
01-16-2013 01:52:29
BruceB_RR
Love the direction, hate the update process.
01-16-2013 01:52:49
timtom
agreed. I see the light. Still in the tunnel.
01-16-2013 01:52:49
Steve
im a prodigio newbie
01-16-2013 01:52:52
cosmo
Brad
Listen to him and Ben on Marketcast
01-16-2013 01:53:45
Steve
I was able to import older wiz files but unable to see the rules
get error that rule is incomplete... It worked on previous version.. :(
01-16-2013 01:54:53
cosmo
Beige Book out in 5
01-16-2013 01:56:36
Steve
Shadow trader has come up with a strategy for pairs trading. It worked on older version.. now looks like it would be impossible to implement with the new changes
01-16-2013 01:58:55
cosmo
I never tried it as I trade IRA where I can't do shorts. Futures are in Ninja account where the margins are much better than TOS.
01-16-2013 01:59:21
Steve
TOS is to expensive\
01-16-2013 01:59:21
BruceB_RR
Why don't you think it will work.
01-16-2013 01:59:51
cosmo
$5 round trip on futures
On 3-T
01-16-2013 02:00:07
Steve
i use infinity for futuers
01-16-2013 02:00:11
cosmo
futures
01-16-2013 02:00:14
Steve
2.15 a SIDE
01-16-2013 02:00:18
BruceB_RR
I haven't looked at the pairs trade rules in awhile but I don't remember anything being abnormal about them.
01-16-2013 02:00:29
Steve
per contract
STrader has a buy and sell rule that uses 2 stocks in each rule
01-16-2013 02:01:35
cosmo
Sounds like about the same, Steve. $400 margin on /ES
01-16-2013 02:02:13
Steve
each stock gets its own watchlist and you assign a buy or sell depending on the pair
01-16-2013 02:02:42
BruceB_RR
Yes they use the Single OHLC to compare the working stock to the other.
01-16-2013 02:03:52
Steve
each rule has 2 OHLC, a subract, a constant, a GTE or LTE and a entry
I created a enry, stop and target but dont know how to getit in the builder.. previously the entry went to the scan and the other 2 went to management.. I would save a buy then save another strategy as sell
create a watchlist and assign one stock to buy and other to sell
01-16-2013 02:07:48
BruceB_RR
It should work about the same, the Strategy Builder is a bit different now.
01-16-2013 02:08:41
Steve
i am hoping that Shadow Trader Pairs Tom or Swing Peter figures it out, cause I cant.. :)
01-16-2013 02:09:36
BruceB_RR
I am having a problem with my strategy builder page at present. But I will go to ST and get their current rules and give it a look. I may be able to at least get you started again.
01-16-2013 02:09:38
Steve
i am ready to allot some cash to options house so I can pair trade automated and save on commissions
I can save at least $4 a trade
That would be great Bruce
when I imported ST rules I was unable to expand the node
SB just created a node with an output.. Pretty Rude..huh :)
01-16-2013 02:12:59
BruceB_RR
Try right-clicking on the rule name in the folder.
Open
01-16-2013 02:14:55
Steve
that worked..Thanks
One or more rules in this strategy cannot be found
01-16-2013 02:22:52
RR
Well, I some how managed to lockup my other machine. But yes you should be able to run this. I will put together a report for the FAQ page. Once I reboot :)
01-16-2013 02:23:22
Steve
lol.. thanks again
Hey Bruce, Where are the FAQ located?
01-16-2013 02:37:16
BruceB_RR
http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/prodigious-forum/prodigio-50-faq-and-first-impressions.html
01-16-2013 02:38:11
Steve
much appreciated.. thanks again
01-16-2013 02:39:31
BruceB_RR
Be sure to use one of the links to OptionHouse from my site when you do open an account there :)
01-16-2013 02:43:14
Steve
I sure will,
01-16-2013 02:44:38
BruceB_RR
Do you still have the link to the page you got the strategy from, or could you email me the .wiz file
rr.tos.stuff@gmail.com
01-16-2013 02:48:40
Steve
http://www.shadowtrader.net/pairstrader_archive/110819pairstrader.HTML
scroll to middle of page
01-16-2013 02:49:19
BruceB_RR
Thanks
Ok, first thing is that the rules are using a GTE with a time node, that does not work any more. There are new nodes to do logical time comparisons with.
http://i.imgur.com/vmelB.png
01-16-2013 03:03:01
Steve
That esxplains the Error :)
I see there is a After or same time node
01-16-2013 03:04:24
BruceB_RR
Yeah there are a few of those changes in the new version. They tried to simplify the nodes work loads.
01-16-2013 03:07:40
Steve
do you think I need the time adapter?
can I just use the today after node ?
01-16-2013 03:10:38
BruceB_RR
I was wondering that myself. The time should be relevant to all stocks anyway, why did they test both.
01-16-2013 03:12:09
Steve
this is my first time at theprogramming.. I think I need to look at whats available. I used to use SQL statements in my other life as a peon :)
01-16-2013 03:14:35
BruceB_RR
Since I'm not up on their thinking I would leave it this way for now. Once you get it working then you can play with it a bit.
01-16-2013 03:15:12
Steve
sounds like a plan..thanks
01-16-2013 03:21:02
BruceB_RR
I think there may be a problem with using only Single OHLC's in the rule also.
01-16-2013 03:21:35
Steve
that would definately be a problem for this strategy
01-16-2013 03:22:17
BruceB_RR
Not a problem, just a challenge :)
01-16-2013 03:22:38
Steve
that would definately be a challenge for this strategy :)
01-16-2013 03:23:36
cosmo
Looks like the stop part of my exit is firing in both TO and RTS but not the profit side.
01-16-2013 03:23:55
BruceB_RR
May have to have both a Long entry and a Short entry rules.
01-16-2013 03:24:31
Steve
that is the way it was done
01-16-2013 03:24:37
cosmo
A couple of trades closed on strat stops (part of OR in exit strat).
I have a few entry hits also in TO that did not fill today in RTS.
01-16-2013 03:31:32
BruceB_RR
The real challenge is to get RuleBuilder to behave.
01-16-2013 03:32:24
cosmo
Slow as molassas.
probably in debug mode
01-16-2013 03:39:16
timtom
yeah, totally locked up for me
01-16-2013 03:48:39
BruceB_RR
Looking at the date of that pairs trade news letter, I think that was a fairly early version of the rules.
01-16-2013 03:54:51
Steve
could be. I know this version has newer nodes
01-16-2013 03:58:03
BruceB_RR
But as we were saying before, this should work basically the same as the previous rule. It would just have to be run against a list with just UDR in it.
http://i.imgur.com/4X8lA.png
I used the Today Between so the end of the day could also be managed.
If I remember right though, I think they had added some correlation logic to the entry rule.
01-16-2013 04:00:55
Steve
the only problem is that the strategy trades the spread not the stock price. Prodigio does not understand symbols with - sign ex. mfst-goog
01-16-2013 04:01:45
BruceB_RR
It would still be looking at the spread between the two symbols.
if the difference is greater then 6.5 and within the time window then signal True.
Since the list would only contain the UDR symbol, it would be exactly the same as having the Single OHLC(UDR)
01-16-2013 04:03:49
Steve
in your example the OHLC nore is just time placement, does it reference a stock symbol?
01-16-2013 04:05:04
BruceB_RR
OHLC is the current stock symbol that the rule is looking at from the list.
We would only have one stock in the list.
01-16-2013 04:05:55
Steve
that makes sense now.. cool
01-16-2013 04:07:25
BruceB_RR
I'll see if I can get a hold of a later version of the strats.
Seems like I also remember someone was working on replacing the constant with a function to calc it.
01-16-2013 04:11:02
Steve
your example can work as a short and stop entry..
would just need to change the GTE to LTE for target
01-16-2013 04:16:35
BruceB_RR
Yeah, looks like you would the target is a little different. Also has a average of the daily difference.
http://i.imgur.com/I14wM.png
01-16-2013 04:18:13
Steve
Brilliant
01-16-2013 04:19:55
BruceB_RR
I do have a link to some of the old video chats, including Tom's http://rr-corner.squarespace.com/video-links/
Might be able to find the a later version of the strats there.
I need to grab some lunch. be back in a bit.
01-16-2013 04:22:16
cosmo
Happy hour time here almost
01-16-2013 04:22:21
Steve
looks like a combination order with 2 strats if it can be done
01-16-2013 04:43:36
BruceB_RR
Yeah, I'm a bit late getting to lunch today :)
01-16-2013 05:13:29
Steve
Bruce, Thanks for your help. I may be checking in from time to time. Would be nice to be a ble to combine a buy strat for the entry and a combo sell strat for the target and stop assign to the long side stock and a short entry and a buy for target and stop and assign it to short stock using seperate watch list for each stock
01-16-2013 05:14:59
BruceB_RR
Yes, that is how it would work.
01-16-2013 05:15:19
Steve
since the target is usually the 10 SMA should be a little easier to manage
01-16-2013 05:16:12
BruceB_RR
You can still use multiple exits for Target and Stop, but they could be combined into one rule with a OR
01-16-2013 05:20:58
Steve
I need to put the statement on paper then fill in the operators. I like the way you combined the time nodes into one.. I want to streamline all strats so they will fire quickly
Its more "challenging" when you are combining 2 stocks in a strat
would be cool if they had a hard to borrow/ easy to borrow node that can be implemented so if one stock was HTB it wouldnt fire the strat
01-16-2013 05:25:24
BruceB_RR
I am looking at a couple of Tom's older videos from around the TOS split. I did find a scanning rule that they used to find pairs. I think that is where I remember them using a Correlation node.
01-16-2013 05:26:42
Steve
i believe they used a node that they can put a stock price in. I beieve it was below $100.00
01-16-2013 05:27:36
BruceB_RR
Yes, that was just to limit the price of the stocks to less then $100
01-16-2013 05:29:36
Steve
i remember seeing that video. I traded pairs manually for a while using TOS. When I finally learned how to create the rules and wiz files, Prodigio changes it up a bit..
:)
i probably saw 50 hours of archieved pairs shows. Im a futures trader by the day
but would like to trade pairs also
automated
01-16-2013 05:34:10
BruceB_RR
I watch a lot of the videos also. I did see a few things I would have changed, But I was always to busy to give it a try.
01-16-2013 05:35:20
Steve
I trade Market profile. I am usually done for the day before 10:00 am
very simple trading.
01-16-2013 05:35:39
BruceB_RR
Cool
01-16-2013 05:36:01
Steve
I like pairs because i feel like im running a hedge fund...LMAO :)
01-16-2013 05:36:12
BruceB_RR
LOL
I missed a note from Mike a bit ago, It looks like special characters could very well be causing us problems.
They are blocking us from using them in new saves and save-as but I know I have a lot of them from my imported rules and strategies.
01-16-2013 05:53:08
Steve
When I worked a Citrix Systems we had a problem with the capital S in usernames...LOL
and max characters in a string
01-16-2013 05:55:05
BruceB_RR
Must have been fun for you! :)
01-16-2013 05:55:41
Steve
truncated in the code..Blew it up crashed servers :(
that was over 3 yrs ago.. The products were great though
01-16-2013 05:57:10
BruceB_RR
Wow, I was expecting you to say it was a lot longer back then 3 years.
01-16-2013 05:58:05
Steve
I worked there for 10 yrs that was 3 yrs ago :)
the issue happened yrs ago.
i was a tech lead for them in Support
then management, then forced lay off :)
01-16-2013 06:00:30
BruceB_RR
Promote chya now we can't afford ya!
01-16-2013 06:01:54
Steve
LOL
01-16-2013 06:01:56
BruceB_RR
Pretty much the same boat here, I was a Sr. CAD Tech/Surveyor.
01-16-2013 06:02:44
Steve
if we can figure out this trading stuff, we can survive just as well
no regrets
01-16-2013 06:03:44
BruceB_RR
I'm trying to make this site my job, Still have a long ways to go.
01-16-2013 06:04:46
Steve
your doing a great job and service to your users
ill be sure to hit the links
01-16-2013 06:05:03
BruceB_RR
:)
01-16-2013 06:05:53
Steve
"IF" steve hits 100 links "Then" Bruce is a happy man
01-16-2013 06:06:57
BruceB_RR
Probably not all at once though lol goog might wonder what was happening :)
01-16-2013 06:07:27
Steve
I have a smart phone
i can hit links from there to
too
01-16-2013 06:08:27
BruceB_RR
I do think that once Prodigio gets going live again it will catch on.
01-16-2013 06:09:12
Steve
i am blown away by it already. I ready to give optionshouse a try as well
ho you host the site?
Do
01-16-2013 06:10:05
BruceB_RR
I have it at SquareSpace
It is the first site I have ever worked on!
01-16-2013 06:11:04
Steve
I have used dreamweaver before for website creation
01-16-2013 06:11:11
BruceB_RR
I've been having a blast.
01-16-2013 06:11:46
Steve
i am not much of a coder but have used asp aspx and some jave
java
my prior job has exposed me to alot of technology
01-16-2013 06:12:52
BruceB_RR
Not much of a coder here either,
01-16-2013 06:12:57
Steve
i have been around some really brilliant people, developers and architects
01-16-2013 06:15:06
BruceB_RR
Most of my coding has been on HP calculators since late 70's. Logic efficiency was always key for me and what I learned then seems to serve me well here with Prodigio.
01-16-2013 06:16:03
Steve
late 70's?
are you with prodigio?
01-16-2013 06:21:02
BruceB_RR
No, I was just one of the early adopters.
Yeah, old fart here LOL
01-16-2013 06:25:11
cosmo
Reverse Polish Notation...been so long i would have to scratch my head. All of my stuff has the math built in to the programs. You just have to know how to input the data and then interpret it.
01-16-2013 06:26:11
Steve
agree. I need to put it on paper first and make notes of what I need accomplished
then with a little luck ill be back in business
01-16-2013 06:27:44
cosmo
The design modeling programs have gotten really smart. I have to go back and view You Tube sometimes if I lay off of AutoCad for a long time.
01-16-2013 06:30:16
Steve
i just need to get my feet wet with the application. I am starting to feel more comfortable
01-16-2013 06:30:27
BruceB_RR
Yep, RPN on a HP-25. 4 register stack, 8 bit flag register, 32 programable steps. Still had more computing power then was on Apollo
01-16-2013 06:31:02
Steve
like the commedore 64 or the vic20
01-16-2013 06:31:23
cosmo
I used a 41CV with a strip unit. It saved a lot of entry time on daily calculations.
01-16-2013 06:31:30
Steve
8k memory i believe that was alot back then
How did we survive back then..lol
01-16-2013 06:33:19
BruceB_RR
I had a Radio Shack color computer 2 that I took from 4k to 16k, thought I was in hog heaven.
01-16-2013 06:33:34
Steve
embrace the technology. 20 yrs from now this stuff will be antiquated
01-16-2013 06:33:55
cosmo
The 3-D room modeling programs did away with most of my need. I also had a special slide rule that had all of my general purpose acoustic stuf on it for quick answers.
I still use it
01-16-2013 06:34:30
Steve
i still use a sundial
01-16-2013 06:34:59
cosmo
Why re-invent the wheel
01-16-2013 06:35:02
Steve
difficult to tell time in the dark though
lol
01-16-2013 06:35:14
BruceB_RR
Yep, I really wonder what life will be like in 20-50 years.
01-16-2013 06:35:23
cosmo
use flashlight and a clock
:(
The Borg...you will be assimilated.
01-16-2013 06:36:28
BruceB_RR
3D printing could change the world, first steps towards a StarTrek replicator.
01-16-2013 06:36:54
cosmo
Time for din din here
01-16-2013 06:37:02
Steve
i read about 3D printing. good to invest in for the future
me too.
01-16-2013 06:37:48
BruceB_RR
Later guys :)
01-16-2013 06:37:50
Steve
Thanks for all your help.
later all
01-16-2013 06:38:02
BruceB_RR
Your welcome
01-16-2013 06:38:23
cosmo
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/15/Gun-Ban-Work-Around-3D-Printing-High-Capacity-Magazines
01-16-2013 06:39:35
BruceB_RR
lol, yeah people are already wanting there to be some kind of controllers in them to limit what can be printed.
So the only people that wouldn't be able to print that stuff are the people that wouldn't anyway.
01-16-2013 09:57:11
Steve
Hey everyone
good night all